Is marriage a redundant concept?

Is marriage a redundant concept?

 Just wondering if people still believe in marriage? I know a lot of people take it for-granted but I'm not convinced anyone actually believes in the word or the idea any more. Whadooyareckon?

younglothario's picture

Is marriage a redundant concept?

As much as it is a very romantic notion, it is just that ,a notion. Of course marriage is an outmoded concept. To think it is not would be absurd, how can it not be?

The concept is based around the human race when girls, boys, princes and princesses were spawning offspring in their early teens with a life expectancy of 35 years. The males spent a large part of their time warring, during relative barbaric times when crusading and spreading the good word was de rigeur. If not killed in battle, died of rickets, malnutrition, ringworm and any old garden variety airborn virus.  Whilst the girls were locked up in medieval chastity belts and stayed put in the village they were born in.

By comparison now, it is not so uncommon to reach triple digits, and 80 plus is almost a banker. Both genders have high disposable at a comparatively early age, with no dependents, cheap travel available and conceptually think nought of travelling to far flung corners of the world on a junket to have a 'look around'.

We relocate to countries escaping families and rebirthing ourselves, as freely as bedouins upstumps roaming the deserts. And the freedom of sexuality and acceptance of multiple partners before 'settling down' even recommended by most parents acknowledges that people do not 'dedicate themselves' to one person in todays society.

Apart from those personally loosely held beliefs and mildly formed suspicions, I'm not sure. LOL

YL

 

 

Joshua's picture

getting better all the time?

 Hey YL,

thanks for picking up the thread. It seems like you've thought about this a bit. Excuse me for prying but are your parents still together today?

I have a suspicion that whilst some people take it for-granted that they'll get married and start ramming pickets into the earth to mark their sovereign territory, I'm more a like to you, in that I do believe the word marriage counts for naught... or at least very little. 

I think love is a grand idea but it's embodiment in marriage... hmmm yet to be convinced. 

The reason I ask you whether your own parents are married or not is because of the conversations I've had with my peers all those in favour of the marriage "happily ever after" concept have parents still together and those who don't believe in marriage are from a split family unit. 

I reckon it's an issue of personal experience - what do ya say?

-jaoush

younglothario's picture

Interesting frames of reference.

As it happens the familial home did happen to become broken at a reasonably early and fertile stage of my life. But whilst I am sure cohorts of armchair analysts might suggest otherwise I don't feel that is the cause for my views on the whole subject. Both my parents subsequently remarried and have been very content ever since suggesting that they certainly still subscribe to principle of marriage. 

The rationale behind my beliefs is based around the fact that people grow, invariably at different speeds, and in different directions based on the stimuli around them. Not dissimilar to the flower always turning to grow toward the sun. The challenges in modern society is maintaining the positioning the sun in the same place above two people with dramatically different daily paths.

It is just my belief that what we individually require from a partner at one age is often dramatically different at the later stage. The beautiful sexy girl, handsome man with totally opposite interests who by that very fact, intrigues us so in the early, shall we call them 'physical years', invariably will either become mother and / or father to fulfil the 'traditional family role' which obviously radically departs form the dynamic that initially brought two together.  Then they must morph to become kindred spirit, and start seeing the big picture from the same perspectives with similar interests, because otherwise we find ourselves by dint of time and dissimilar interests and changing requirements of a partner, distancing.

And I believe that we live and are raised, in fact almost force-fed a 'buy now, pay later' life. Being given sage advice such as 'you only walk this planet once make every minute count'...Everything is driven by instant gratification. from credit cards and credit free buying, to take the drugs now they're great! who cares that we have no idea how it might affect us in later life....And tolerance and forgiveness are qualities shunned and seen as weakness giving way to intolerance, pyrotechnics and aggravated assault dished up in most daily TV progs. Which came first the created programs, the ratings or the viewers needs. And the same 'Mary Shelley' Networks, profiteer by reporting back to us the monsters we've become. 

And a stable diet of doom and gloom with another drug related crime / murder / death thrown in as seasoning, whilst public celebrity icons back on the original subject, heralded and highlighted at great expense as opinion makers and trend setters get married and annulled in the same months weeks in few cases days..WTF!

Ooops on a roll, don't stop me now...

Anyway, add the reduced limitations and restrictions I mentioned previously  and political correctness gone into overdrive in terms of being raised with any disciplines, and the recipe is all but baked. 

Perhaps you should tell why your mind is dwelling n the subject in the first place.

 

Joshua's picture

 There's a lot in your reply

 There's a lot in your reply YL, thanks for answering honestly.

For me, honestly, the idea of marriage, as it's executed in the world we live in today, is ridiculous - "All of the above" in terms of your posting. I thought marriage is a good ball to get rolling in the early days of this forum because it's a concept that men and women are concerned about regardless of gender or sexuality (perhaps exclude hermaphrodites?). And the real reason I raised the question is because of the issue of gay marriage. 

I'm all for two blokes, two ladies wanting to get hitched in the same way as the mainstream. Marriage is about love not religion and law. What I hate is the argument that marriage is "sacred". Bullshit.

Marriage is as about as sacred a ritual as McDonald's hamburgers on the way home from a night on the town. I'm pretty sure Las Vegas does a drive through wedding. Don't deny someone the right for a piece of paper they really want, for something as arbitrary as their choice in partner. Hell if I want to marry my girlfriend and she wants to marry me, that's all we need to do it - and as you say - we can turn around within the week and get a divorce. That's discriminatory and it fuckin blows a fat one.

Abolish marriage for everyone. Civil Unions for all.

If you want to get married, come back in 10 years!

mikey_winsor's picture

casts from seperate molds

What does the piece of paper mean? the ring? the wedding ceremony? – almost nothing; these can not make something sacred.

Anyone who has been in a gay marriage does not fit into the "married" group in a society the same. They make a commitment to each other, and oppose social and political conforms together. They are reliance with a sense of strength. It is not about being gay, it is about bonding. They come home and converse; laugh, cry, and make love together, from a perspective as partners.

A desire to marry is like a desire to leave the island inhabited by Babylonian tongues; to seclude as a couple, and create a language congruent to each other.

I am not a christian, yuck.  regardless,

Each “married” couple poses an individual bond distinctive beyond the broad classification the term entails. I do not think you can criticize a “sacredness” when a couple uses a common word to simplify their relationship as a “marriage”.

Joshua's picture

A word is not the meaning

Perhaps you're misunderstanding me?

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you?

Unlike churches, marriage applies to the religious and non-religious. So even the apathetic and ignorant of religious jurisprudence and dogma can still get "married" - as long as they are male and female. 

My sticking point is with the term, its real meaning and its implied meaning.

Basically I think we're arguing the same point and that is that the concept of marriage is important for the joining together of two sacred beings in a bond for life and whatever the peculiarities of your vows may entail. This concept I believe in, I believe that as a true adult you can make a commitment and honour that commitment. However I do also agree with younglethario when he talked about growing at different rates personally and that ultimately meaning you can't make a "lifetime commitment".

Whilst Owen may want to smash down the Church, it's also likely that he will one day get "married". If someone who is so opposed to the church and the concept of divinity, still has the ability and sanction of society to get married - how can "marriage" mean anything more than civil union - for all intense legal purposes?

If a homosexual couple wishes to be joined till-death-do-them-part, who are we, as a secular society, to stop them having that title and ultimately "word" that any heterosexual couple can have pinned on their lapel for a matter of dollars and a couple of signatures.

It's either:

- you're not religious and therefore not married.

- or marriage is not religious and therefore everyone and anyone can get married.

I just don't think it's fair or even appropriate that a couple that are together for 3 years and then divorce were ever truly married. Especially when there are gay people who've been with one partner for 17+ years and have truly entered into the spirit of commitment.

What is a marriage after all but the celebration of a physical and spiritual union underpinned by that most human-of inventions: commitment?

What do you think?

mikey_winsor's picture

hitchin up right

 

2 main guidelines evident:
  - two people
  - promise to love each other forever; no sexual relations with others

The difference in marriage from unmarried couples is the promise of infinity. It is a significant life change to give your life to another person. If you honestly make the promise you give up the idea of personal possessions, everything becomes “ours”, you plan life goals together, you relocate yourself to be physically close, you posses no more secrets, no more boundaries between you and another person. But these things do not happen as quickly as the words “I do” are promised. And there is no end in an infinite love; it is a continuous cooperation. If you promise and three years later divorce, I agree, you were never truly married.

 For me marriage is, although man-made concept, natural because it crumbles the idea of personal possession, which is a corrupt and confining concept. Marriage; it is not redundant.

 From religious perspective, what happens if you marry, spouse dies, re-marry?
Two spouses in heaven? Heaven does not exist, as long as churches host weddings, marriage is redundant. How do you expect to make a life-long promise within an infrastructure claiming to know the answer to all questions; “god”?

Seems like every persepective in society that tries to outline marraige, legally, ceremony, ring, paper, definition, religous significance, all are redundant. But all marraige entails is what collectively the couple decides, basis to basis.

Owen's picture

More rambling

Although the word 'marriage' definitely at some time was tied to a (Christian) religious ritual, the cultural concept and currency of 'marriage' has grown legs and run right outta Dodge. It's the word marriage and not the specifics of the ceremony that has the cultural currency. So - yeah - my arguement then, is more about that we should apply the word marriage to civil unions. The closest equivelant I suppose would be the year we talk about in the West - we talk in terms of AD/BC. I also use those terms. It's not that I am pronouncing that I was born 1,984 years after the birth of a child called Jesus - but that these terms have been pretty well culturally assimilated to the point that they are the most instantly recognisable, understandable, and international. Obviously there's no 'sacredness' about the use of the terms - I'm just using that as an exmaple of another originally religious-tied term that has escaped its roots and now exists independentally. (Don't get me started on CE/BCE (the 'secular alternative' to BC/AD). Just too confusing/ silly) Another example that springs to mind would be Christmas. Utterly devoid of meaning for a whole lot of people who nonetheless choose to get together with their families and eat so much meat they turn into meat-creatures (delicious) each year. So, the roundabout point is: 'marriage' can and does exist without religion - and it still manages to carry with it the idea of committment and devotion without having to based it around the premise of believing in a magical leprechaun with powers over fish and some breads.

So I choose option 2 in your list. Everyone, anyone can get married. I see where you're coming from where you say you don't think it's 'fair or even appropriate' that a couple divorce after 3 years should ever be 'married' - the fear that the cultural currency of marriage will decline. I'd say that that's not really something we can know, and it's easy and tempting to always follow a situation down its slippery slope to Sodom (oops, relgious reference) but it's also dangerous to project on how culture will work itself out from your armchair.

But I have a puzzling new question to add for any animal lovers out there: is committment a human invention? I'm pretty sure there are some animal species that are fiercy loyal to one/ a group of partners. It's a biological phenomenon and not a cultural invention itself. Giggity.

Owen's picture

Putting that ring on the finger

Well put, Mikey. I agree.

Although it may be possible to say that - in general - marriage isn't 'sacred', the same can be said for any sort of cultural construct. After all, the concept of what is/ isn't 'sacred' is all up to who's doing the talking. I - for instance - probably wouldn't care if you bulldozed the churches in my local area and put up a few art galleries. The church, to me, is not at all 'sacred' - it holds no stock, it seems like a riduculous waste of space. Personally I don't buy into the cultural construct of the church as being 'sacred'. This of course does not mean at all that the church is not 'sacred' to anyone. It just happens to not have any sort of relevance for me.

So what stops me from putting on a hard hat and hiring some sledge hammers? Well, it's out of respect for the fact that people can hold things 'sacred' that aren't at all 'sacred' to me. (In the case of the church, it's  very, very begrudging respect let me tell you.) So to say that we should all put away the concept of marriage because it isn't 'sacred' any more seems pretty disrespectful to those who still find meaning in it. (I don't mean, of course, that you can't still think people are stupid, bug-eyed sieve-brained horses arses for finding meaning where they do. Please feel free.)

 And marriages for all, I say. Like Mikey said, the sacredness is in the feeling between two people, and has nothing to do with whatever might be going on in their pants.

Chihiro's picture

Marriage a redundant concept? .. cont

Marriage is the basis of family, born out of necessity for procreation and survival of offspring. The need for women to be supported during the physically disabling time of childbirth & rearing young children. Many cultures hold fast to the strict traditions of marriage, resisting evolution. Sati – an ancient practice followed by some Hindu communities but outlawed by the British during colonial rule of widows who were required to throw themselves on their husband’s pyre stil practised today. Historically women unable to re-marry after their husband’s death had no means of financial support. Arranged marriages, traditional polygamy of Islamic religion now mostly outlawed.
We live in the best times in the history of the world, which is not often recognised.
Evolution brings about systems that work better than before. Marriage still has a place. Union of 2 people to either share life experiences or raising of children in safe & stable environments. Laws are being changed frequently to recognise de-facto relationships. Division of property & parenting responsibilities are being divided more equally during divorce.
I think we can have it all. A society where if you so wish to marry and live co-dependently for eternity there is a place for you in our world alongside the single mother or father, the gay parents and the playboy mansion with multiple Barbie dolls.
I’m just so glad I don’t have to marry a man I’m told to then jump into the coffin with him if he happens to cark it before I do.. Which lets face, would likely be the case, as men just don’t last as long!

adrian's picture

New is the new...erm, New

No marriage is not redundant. But any strands of religious binding are lost. But sadly we are no longer just becoming, we've become products of a disposable age. Educated and culturally emersed in the notion everything has a shelf life. Out with the old in with the new be it products, entire belief systems, virtues, or values.

New is the new, ...New.  Perceptions are why build on the old house foundations, when it's easier to knock it over and start afresh... It's perhaps sad reality that people readily discard real value and often change the wrong parts of their lives in a bid to improve it.

Mikey you're right, it's outside the bounds of church and religion. It's simply about two people choosing ongoing support for each other.